America Entering the War

So in '41 there were secret meetings between the United States and British militaries. It is my understanding that in these meetings they decided that in the event that there is a two-front war, there will be a "Europe first" policy.

In light of this, how aware were they that there might be an impending attack on the United States by Japan? Or is this an indication that the United States might have entered the war without the provocation by Japan through the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Joe Louis

This Wednesday's presentation on Joe Louis was, frankly, inspiring. Joe Louis was someone that I knew very little about, so this was informative as well as entertaining. Before the presentation, I only knew vague details about the fight against Schmeling. I had no idea that Louis donated money to the Navy or Army Relief funds, or anything about his influence in the armed forces. Something that I found particularly interesting was that Schmeling paid for Louis' funeral.

American Idealism

It seems that America tended to be rather idealistic about its expectations for war. First it thought it could just ignore it all and hope "the storm clouds" "far across the sea" would just dissipate and not effect it. Then Americans figured they'd just profit off of it much like the last war, only the President was more one-sided in who we would profit off. No one seemed to realize what an economic threat a unified Nazi Europe would be. With the sort of trade controls and tariffs they would be able to levee against us, no doubt America would have quickly come to regret ignoring A German victory in Europe. Aren't we glad we never let it get to that? If anyone is interested in these sort of what ifs? I have read quite a lot of the literature out there on the subject, and could probably point you to a book or two. For instance, in The Third Reich Victorious 10 different scenarios are presented on how the war may have turned out differently. There are others out there as well, if you wanted to look more into the social aspect of that or the Eastern Front.

Presentations Macathur and Louis

I thought that both of these presentations were well-researched and engagingly presented. It just goes to show that you can always learn a thing or two more about this famous person or that. I didn't know that Macarthur graduated top of his class at West Point, but it doesn't surprise me. And I really didn't know much about the famous Joe Louis either, and I found his connection to desegregating the military rather inspiring. He was able to use his fame to touch on a topic that was taboo to even talk about, and helped bring forth our all-volunteer and racially diverse Armed Forces.

Preparation

In preparing for the war America did not keep their options open, and because of this we were not very prepared.  Our soldiers were in many cases thought to to be stupid, but it was okay because they would not really need to think.  It was decided that this was going to be a mechanized war so that they would not need to think.  The machines would do all of the work and thinking.  Could this really be what many thought?  On top of this our military leaders thought that we would be able to totally avoid getting involved in this war all together.  It was as if we could stand on the outskirts looking in and occasionally passing supplies to the countries involved.  It is hard to believe that no one could really see the problem with this.  Obviously a few individuals saw that America was headed into the war, but no one was really preparing to do it.  No one actually saw beyond entering the war.  We would soon bribe pampered boys into battle.  Was our government really thinking, and if so what were they thinking?  Could many individuals have been that close minded?  

Feb 20th Presentation Comments from Maria Gonzalez

The importance of the study of history was really shown in the McArthur presentation.  What was commonly thought about this individual was not the whole truth.  While looking at the historic details we have seen what he was really like in some instances.   Many people both in the past and present do not know what historic figures were truly like because they do not know all of the details.  People have frequently thought that McArthur was a great leader, but in fact, as we have learned, he had his own faults too.  He was many times critical and selfish which caused problems for America.  

It was quite interesting to learn about the military side of Joe Louis.  He did so much for African Americans while in the military that I did not know about.  Most interesting to me was that he was the first African American portrayed in an aggressive propaganda poster.   One individual can really make a difference.  

Correction on Joe Louis presentation

First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for the kind words you directed at my presentation.  It was my intent to provide an interesting and new perspective on WWII, and to shed some light on what I feel to be a sometimes overlooked historical figure.  

All that said, there was an important flaw in my presentation that I feel obligated to point out.  Joe Louis did not, as I stated twice, receive the Congressional Medal of Honor.  As Buck said in his post, that is reserved for those who show bravery in combat.  Louis never entered in to combat.  Instead, he was given the Congressional Gold Medal.  That is the highest honor that can be bestowed upon a citizen, so it isn't like Louis got disrespected.  

I apologize for my mistake.  I misread my own notes during the presentation, and injected the more common name (Medal of Honor) for the correct one (Gold Medal).  Hopefully that clears everything up.

Joe Louis

I was amazed at the fact that American moral could be based so much on a person of the entertainment industry but I suppose people are much the same today. For example, the olympics with the US against the former USSR was just as epic. More interesting was the fact that the man who lost to Joe Louis the second time around was forced to fight at Crete by Hitler for embaressing his country so badly even though he was well past the age of the draft. Though this story did have a happy ending which most war stories do not, and that was that the German that Joe Louis beat became friends with him later in life and actually paid for his funeral.

The thought the topic about the infantry being the lowest scoring on the AGCT was very interesting, and now I know where the belief that the infantry is the dumbest individuals in the military started. However, I really find it hard to believe that no higher ups thought that this was a bad idea. The reason is because the common foot soldier protects the most important asset the military has the service member and one wrong move by an individual could cost the lives of hundreds of men. In addition, a riflemen not only knows his job but also is a jack-of-all-trades because at the front resources are not always available, which we have learned from In Deadly Combat. Finally, I would like to say that in today’s military the individuals serving in the infantry are not the dumbest members in the service but on average the smartest based on the ASVAB (today’s equal to the AGCT, the ASVAB is based on a score from 0-99). While, to get into the infantry it only takes a score of 30 (which is the lowest for any job in today's military) one cannot be placed into the infantry without wanting to go in the infantry. It is because of this it is highly competitive to get an infantry spot and for this reason and a few others today’s infantrymen are some of the brightest members (based on the ASVAB) in the military both enlisted and officers. (My public serve announcement is now over)

In addition, I thought the reading this week was remarkable about the U-boats that 75% of the U-boats never sunk an enemy ship and that Germany had 29 U-boats in July of 1940. It was amazing the damage those few U-boats caused during 1940. I once heard that Hitler wanted to have a least 100 U-boats before he started a war with Britain. I wonder what would have happened if Germany would have had twice as many U-boat in 1940 or if they had the 100 that Hitler wanted if Britain could have lasted past 1941?

Presentations

The presentations about MacArthur and Joe Louis were full of many interesting facts. I never knew that MacArthur had retired from the service and was recalled to active duty, and at he came from a military family. The most important fact was that he pressed the attack on the Philippines that most didn’t consider of military importance. It seems to me that MacArthur only wanted to attack the Philippines to save his reputation after the Philippines fell. His pride cost thousands of Marines and soldiers lives for an island that was not needed to win the war. I wonder if he ever really thought about the lives of his men? Because during the battle on the Philippines, he only visited the front once or twice and he was willing to sacrifice thousands for his pride in its recapturing. I thought what Joe Louis did for America with his boxing was important, and how he helped desegregate the military was important as well. However, I do not believe that he deserved the Medal of Honor for his actions. That award is the highest award for valor in combat the country can give to service member and most who receive it receive it posthumously.

AGCT

Were there any perks for scoring too high? After looking at some of the test questions it seems like anyone who got a really good grade should be exempt from service as their brain would be put to better use elsewhere in society. Granted some of the questions would be easier if I was living in the 1940s, but you have to admit that is a hard test even by today's standards.

U.S. admirals

I was appalled to learn about US reactions to British naval intellegence. The fact that Rear Admiral Edwards, told a British admiral that "the Americans wished to learn theri own lessons and that they had plenty of ships with which to do so," is horrible. I do not understand how he could be so callous with American lives. I was wondering what others thought of this.

“Who Fought and why?”

In the chapter relating to the army’s means of measuring aptitude, I remember a story my mom shared about her father, my grandfather.  He was a farmer, newly married with a baby on the way.  The U.S. entered the war and young men were drafted.  He was the first draftee from Carroll County, Missouri.  The U.S. drafted him and then questioned his intelligence by administering IQ tests.  It seems strange that first the military made a person join up and then questioned their intelligence.  Apparently, he must have made the grade, because he served courageously during the war and was stationed at IE-Shima, Japan, one of the lesser-known islands, but close to the fighting.  It seems that the War Department prejudices were discriminatory against many groups of people.  The chapter refers to the confusion, delays, and waste that were associated with the department in their attempt to determine the aptitude when it really did not make any difference, because after all was said and done, the recruits became just a number.

Presentations for MacArthur and Louis

MacArthur Presentation:

 

In this presentation, it was obvious that MacArthur, though a great commander, thought so highly of himself that it was almost as if he thought others were incapable of commanding any troops other than himself.  Even after he was ordered from Bataan, he still tried to run the battle.  It seems like that in his quest for victory, he was willing to sacrifice the troops who had so valiantly supported him.

 

Joe Louis Presentation:

 

It was apparent from a presentation that Joe Louis was an icon to the black troops.  He was rebuffed by white soldiers, but a representative and leader to the black soldiers.  The only time he seemed accepted by the white soldiers was when he was fighting, but it was interesting to note that he would only fight in front of integrated audiences.  It was also interesting that Hitler placed so much value on Max Schmeling, pinpointing him as the pinnacle of manhood.  I would assume that Hitler looked at Schmeling’s ability to fight as a sign of his own superiority over other races.  Louis, on the other hand, was fighting for the honor of his country and for the African-American race.  When it was stated that Schmeling helped pay for Louis’ funeral, I could not help but think what Hitler would have had to say about that.  I also liked the quote from Louis, “We’re going to do our part… and we’ll win because we’re on God’s side.”  Seems appropriate considering who Americans were fighting.

FDR's prewar intentions

It seems to me that FDR wanted to get into the war so bad that he provoked Japan into attacking the US.  Even though 80% of the US population did not want to get into another world war, FDR continued to aid England and cut off the life blood of Japan by not trading goods that could be used for war production.  This is a great example of President singlehandedly leading us into a confrontation that could have have been avoided.  Although I am glad that FDR had the foresight to realize that both Nazi Germany and Japan's empires were evil and led us into war, I question his tactics because perhaps many of the deaths of Pearl Harbor could have been avoided if FDR had stated his position in the war sooner.

FDR

It seems, so far, that Roosevelt was very charismatic and really won over the people. If it can't be seen from the Presidential elections, his popularity was probably guaranteed because of the way he listened to the people of the United States. He waited to get involved in WWII until it was necessary for American Troops to enter Europe. Roosevelt know that Americans were against the war and only went as far as to aid the allied nations by producing amunitions and allowing supplies to leave the United States. He is able to rally Americans with his "Democracy First" speech because they see that he has their best interests at heart.
Roosevelt also has the ability to calm Britain by implementing the "ABC-1" plan to aid Europe first in time of attack or when entering the war is called for. Roosevelt seemed to be a knowledgeable individual who was right for the Presidency during WWII.

MacArthur and this weeks' reading

it was informative and interesting to hear of MacArthur's early war flaws in the Philippines and clashes with FDR. Though he became important later in the war and again in Korea, he lost his command for his disputes with Truman.

Ch 10 states that the war began before German admiral Raeder had the navy he wanted (that being a navy that emphasized surface ships) What would this suggest about Hitler's attention to the navy and the advice of his top commanders? Though the U-boat wolfpacks were victorious for a long time, they failed in the battle of the Atlantic. What role could the Bismarck have played against allied merchant vessel's if it had survived its maiden voyage? With so much hype and allied determination to stop it, was the Bismarck sinking without making an impact on the war bound to happen. The Bismarck is a good example of the battleship's end as the dominate force in war at sea- carriers and subs would take on this role after WW2.

Joe Louis

The Joe Louis presentation was excellent. Well presented and lots of good information, not to mention an unexpected topic for a WW2 class. Kudos and well done!

MacArthur

I thought it was interesting that General MacArthur was not a well liked man. Maybe its just me but I've always been given the idea that he was perceived as a great well- liked hero from WWII. I also didn't know that he was so critical of all the presidents during his lifetime. Having been given the sole power to rebuild the Pacific I would've thought he might be a little more grateful towards Washington but apparently not.

Another topic I found interesting was the AGCT. I can't believe that the military didn't realize that smart soldiers were needed in the infantry and not just in the technical parts of the military. This clearly was a bad call considering that 75% of the casualites were taken by the infantry during the war.

Louis and MacArthur presentations

The presentations we saw on Wednesday on Joe Louis, a boxer, and Douglas MacArthur, a general, were very interesting. The presentation on MacArthur commented that he was not a well perceived man. When one thinks of a war hero he/she thinks of prestige, honor, and great sacrifice for country. He seems to have been only looking out for himself especially when he left his troops for Corregidor.
The story of Joe Louis was one that I had not heard previously. Of course after Cinderella Man most know about Jimmy Braddock and his ability to bring up morale during the depression era. What I found disheartening is that the US government used his fighting for their own propaganda, then still practiced types of racism, such as sitting on the back of the bus and eating in a separate area. It was encouraging that he took on, what he called the real war, the war against racism in the US.

Bataan Death March

   I think it is very interesting how most people are unaware of the Bataan Death March.  This was one of the many horrible attrociaties that occurred during World Ward 2.  The march consisted of brutal violence that was directed at the surrendered soldiers who were toughing it through.  This violence that the Japanese directed towards the soldiers was underlyined entirley by creulty.  
It is strange to me how history determines which attrocities in times of war will be remembered more than other ones.  An obvious example of one that is far better known is the Hollocasut.  The Bataan Death March it seems is known by far fewer persons which I think is a bad thing because occurances such as these must be known by everyonee.

Joe Lewis

   I enjoyed hearing about Joe Lewis because like the presenter stated, this is something other than battles or invasions.  I think it was interesting how in depth the presentation became by examining how the man lived his life and how he joined to military.  It was suprising that the picture of him holding a baynott was thought to be so frightening by many people simply because he was black.

   In regards to Joe's boxing career, I thought it was interesting how he was able to fight the German boxer whom was said to be the best in the world.  Despite Lewis loosing to him, he wanted to fight him again which shows courage.

Hilter vs. United States

The article posted about Hitler’s intent on war with the U.S. seems very interesting, however not surprising though. Some theories suggest Hitler was only after the European continent, though a global empire seemed to be his true desire. The revelation that Hitler had written his thoughts on an eventual war on America demonstrates how it was in his long term plans after he could pass through a defeated Britain. It would be naive to think Hitler would want to co-exist with the United States if he had conquered Britain, Russia and the rest of the ‘old world’.

Death March Presentation

The Bataan Death March presentation on Monday was very informative. The presenter gave very good background information to give context to the event. The Philippines were annexed by the US in 1898 following the Spanish-American War, and by 1935 they Philippines had commonwealth status. This provided the backdrop for the conflict. When Japan had air and water superiority they asked the US to give the Philippines independence so that the Philippines could surrender to Japan. The death march itself was 65 miles long and without food and water. Stragglers were executed on the spot. It is intreesting to note the differences in views, regarding Japan's stance on prisoners of war. The presenter did a great job of personalizing the presentation with first-hand accounts of the death march. It was very difficult to hear how excrutiating that experience was.

MacArthur and presentations

Why did MacArthur see the Bataan Peninsula as not worthy of protecting? Given his military training, this decision to hold himself up on a completely different Island seems uncharacteristic. If he had kept the island supplied and had kept the men prepared, they might have been able to hold the Japanese off. It could not have helped moral to have a leader who didn't visit and who didn't supply his soldiers. It is interesting that he received the recognition that he did, when he was so critical of the President and especially after what happened in Bataan. The men that were captured were treated poorly by their capitors. The Death March is one of the many tragic events that happened during the war. So many soldiers lost their lives needlessly while being forced to walk to the POW camp. Do we know why General King surrendered without first informing General Wainwright? How far apart were the two units when King surrendered?

The Doolittle Raid is an amazing victory for the US. General Doolittle took on a huge responsibility when he agreed to train the group of men that would attack Japan back. The planned seems risky. I admire him for being able to get B-25s ready to take off of short carrier runways. Like all of the men who fought in the war, these men were brave. It could not have been easy knowing that not only were they flying planes meant to carry much more equipment but that they were also taking off much earlier than planned. This was proof of the spirit of America that did not die when Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Joe Lewis is an example of the many good people who helped to keep America going during the war. I had not heard about him before Wednesday's presentation. He had a lot to fight against outside of the ring. I still don't understand why it was so vital to keep the military so segregated. We needed good soldiers who were willing to do what needed to be done. It should not have mattered what they looked like. Lewis earned the medals he was awarded. It is kind of ironic that he had to fight to get equality during a war that had a lot to do with acceptance.

Steps towards war

The lecture today really showed how America slowly took steps towards war. It jsut seemed like we weren't really trying to stay out of the war. We just kept becoming more and more involved in the war. At first we tried to stay neutral and then we did Cash/Carry which was for Britain and France. Then Lend/Lease which was for Britian. So we tried not to choose sides at first and then we try to make it look like we weren't on a side and then we just helped out Britain. America slowly worked its way towards step by step. I think it was inevitable that we entered the war, even if we were not bombed by Japan. It would have just taken a little longer. America was even building up its army the whole time. Everything America did pointed towards war in the future.

Joe Lewis presentation

I really enjoyed the presentation on Joe Lewis because I was not aware he did all that for African-Americans in the army. It is too bad that he was not able to be given the Medal of Honor when he was alive. It is nice to see how he tried to fix the problems he seen before him. He did not just allow things to happen and he used his status to try and fix the problems. Joe Lewis did a lot for the country and it should be known. He is definitely a great role model for kids to see and look up to.

Joe Lewis presentation

Bataan Death March

I thought that the presentation over the Bataan Death March was very informative and I learned much more than I had known previously. However I do not think that even if Japan had signed the Geneva Convention that this event would not have occured. Still it is impossible to manage walking sixty five miles with no food or water. Then to throw in the climate and the surroundings that they had to endure. And then to add to that, the Japanese troops were shooting stragglers. I would like to know the conditions of the prison camp that they were walking to and what the mortality rate was at the POW camp as well.

Death March Presentation

The Death March is jsut hard to think about. It was so long and so hard on the soliders. To think that people were actually able to survive it is amazing. The presentation was very good and displayed the information very well and she added a good background to the information. This was a very sad time for the U.S. because of what the troops had to go through. I thought the presentation was done very well.

Death March lessons

I too never quite picked up how long the march was until this presentation. To think of running 65 miles is quite a feat, to walk it is hard, but to walk it with no food or water in that climate would be/was deadly. I can only guess, but I would say that at least as many POWs died as a result of heat stroke/heat related complications as from random Japanese killings. No doubt they speeded the process with their 'shoot the stragglers' policy. This terrible event serves to underscore how any defense plan, even if it is sound, can be destroyed by trying to do too much with too little. Remember how Poland wanted to protect its industrial heart instead of pulling back to a perimeter they had a chance of defending? It seems Macarthur did the same type of thing here, and by the time he tried to correct his mistake, by pulling back to Bataan, it was far too late.

Bataan Death March

I, also, had previously heard of the Death March but did not know that much about it. The presentation was very thorough when explaining how the POWs suffered and what the results were of the March. I was glad to hear in the end the Japanese were charged with war crimes and that some were sent to prison and some were even sentanced to death. I do not believe that not agreeing with the Geneva Convention's rules for POWs is a good enough excuse to use for torturing people this way.

Death March

I knew about the Bataan Death March before the class but I always thought it was a lot longer then it really was. I thought the march was hundreds of miles, that is not to say that 65 miles is not a long way on foot with no food or water. It just makes the death toll even more astounding in my mind. With the thousands of American and Filipino soldiers that died along the march I wonder if America would have abandoned the Philippines like they did or if the American forces would have held out longer if the knew the fate the awaited them? In addition, since Japan did not take part in the Geneva conventions what war crimes were the Japanese leaders charged with?

Presentation on Bataan Death March

I really was not very familiar with the Bataan Death March.  I knew that POWs suffered disgracefully at the hands of the Japanese, but I did not realize how much.   It seems that Germany was not the only country guilty of slaughtering people as if they were animals.  The troops were already weak from thirst, hunger, and lack of sleep, and then to make them walk 65 miles in the sweltering heat was pure torture.  When I think of World War II, I think more of the battles fought, not this type of retaliation that was so inhumane.  Thousands of lives, Americans and Filipinos, were lost during this march that lasted less than ten days (I believe that it what was said).   

Bataan Presentation

Even after studying WWII both in and out of school I had not heard of Philippine battles or the Bataan Death March.  This horrific situation could even be compared to the  camps in Europe, but this concept has not been brought to my attention before.  Soldiers were unprepared and lacked food and weapons.  Many soldiers who became POWs had little to no chance from the beginning.  There was even anti-American attitudes among the Japanese, but like the European camps the harsh treatment was not directed towards Americans only.  American and Filipino soldiers alike were abused by Japanese when they were captured.  

Feb 18-20: U.S.

Death March Presentation

It was interesting to hear about the death march. I didn't know that the citizens who threw food to the troops also got killed. It seems a little rash to kill that person instead of just taking the food they got and keeping it for themselves. 65 miles is a long way especially in the kind of land that they were on.

Dnipir Plan

The plan to station the largest portion of the Red Army behind the Dnipir River as a reserve force could have saved Russia from Germany. However, would Hitler have been so quick to attack if the German Intel had known how vast the Army really was? If they had been positioned closer to the border, its possible that Stalin's efforts to buy time may have delayed the attack. However, Hitler's confidence that the German attack would undermine the communist control - leading to a mass revolt - may have still led to an invasion, and possibly a quick German victory if the reserve had not existed, and the German Panzer divisions had been able to attack the majority of the Soviet troops at the start of the campaign.

Feb 13th presentations

Eben Emael: It was interesting to hear about the Secret Weapons that the Germans developed and used during their attack. Was this a particularly German element of warfare during this period? The hollow charge explosive(or shaped charge) has certainly impacted warfare, it is interesting that the German High Command had such faith in the new technology, that they were willing to use it in the very first major western-front offensive.

Crete: The thing that was most interesting from this presentation was the failure on both sides to predict the opponent's actions. The Allied troops expected a seaborn invasion, and spent much of their effort into trying to prevent an attack from the sea. The Germans failed to realize how much the attack could cost them, and ended up overcommitting their transport aircraft, weakening their ability to win the war. Also interesting is the two sides' different lessons regarding paratroopers. Germany saw their use as done after this battle, considering the losses too costly, while the Americans decided to train their own for use later in the war effort due largely to the success they saw from the German paratroops on Crete.

The Phoney War

Interesting that the war was declared in September although Germany did not even attack until April. It baffles me that because of Germany's decision to wait, things worked out in their advantage. I am aware that all the unnessecary cries of "wolf" worked in their advantage, but I do not believe it a valid excuse of the ill preparation for the first attack. With the knowledge of there being an attack in the future, they should have been ready for something to happen. It was pretty obvious that Germany was planning to do something.